Curse

Lunarhound · Feb 25, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

Time and again, I see this argument leveled when someone brings up things like mounts, ships, player housing, etc. There's no need for them. We have instant travel. We have guildhouses and, possibly, eventual sharing of items and money between characters on the same account. There's just no reason to have them. I haven't yet read enough posts on this particular site to have seen it said here, but I've seen it on a lot of others, and it really bothers me.

Has everyone forgotten that this is a game? Not just a game, but a virtual world, too! Maybe we don't really need mounts for the purpose of getting from place to place quickly, but since when has excluding something because it's not absolutely necessary made a game any fun? I can't speak for anyone else but sometimes, particularly in an online RPG, it's the attention to detail and the fun and immersive extras that make or break a game for me in the long run. I'm not saying that the designers should just throw a bunch of crap in left and right, with no care for whether it has a purpose or not, but in a medium where fun and long-term enjoyment are what people are after "it's not needed" just isn't a good reason not to have something.

The reason to have mounts is that mounts are fun. Being able to travel faster is a blast, whether you need to or not, and mounted combat could offer certain advantages and disadvantages as well (causing your mount to take up a skill slot, just as a pet does, is a good start).

The reason to have ships is that sea voyages are fun. Imagine missions that involve running a vessel with your party members as crew, each performing a different task to keep things running properly, discovering islands and battling sea monsters along the way. And what about naval PvP? It's certainly possible.

The reason to have player housing is to give players a place to call their own (which I'd think would be easy enough to do, in an instanced enviroment like GW's). A place to display treasures and trophies from past adventures, or show off their mount in a pasture out back, or any number of other little things.

Obviously, these things aren't going to make it into release, and they shouldn't. They're extras, and the core of the game still needs a lot of attention. But to say that they should be ruled out entirely simply because they're "not necessary" shows, I think, a terrible lack of imagination and misses the point of what online RPG's are actually for. Mounts, ships and personal dwellings are further ways to enhance your character and give it personality, not to mention being fun goals to work toward in their own right.

I guess my question is, why do so many people seem to have such a bleak, unimaginative picture of features that could really add a lot to the game? Why insist on seeing concepts that have so much to offer as nothing more than outdated utilities, made redundant by GW's design?

Shrapnel_Magnet · Feb 25, 2005, 12:34 AM // 00:34

I personally don't ever want to see them in the game. Why? For one, you'd have players that were faster than you in mission or whatever which would be frustrating for both parties (one having these slow people with him, and the other having this fast guy that they can't keep up with). I don't want to ride horses and stuff in this game. I definitly don't want to ride a dragon or a unicorn or a griffon or a pig or a yak (well, maybe a yak) or whatever. They couldn't offer overwhelming benefits because that would go against the whole idea that it's dependant on the skills you use to achieve success - way of thinking. I dunno, it seems silly to me (for this game).

Housing? We have Guild Halls that are soon to be blessed with some sort of guild storage or something and I've heard some asthetic changes might be added as well. Sure, maybe in a true Massively Multiplayer (no instancing) it might be cool, but I'm more than happy where it stands (if they add the storage and such).

As for the ships... lol, I honestly thought you were kidding. Sea Voyages? I dunno, I'm not tryng to be offensive but I think that this is more out of the question that I can even imagine. I'm happy with going to a port and teleporting to wherever it takes me... I'd like to see more places to explore personally, but I don't want to take a ship out to sea or anything crazy like that. Not in this game at least. Next people will be asking for Desert Caravans and wanting to go to the floating airships and explore the clouds and such.

I can't say I really agree with anything you've said regarding these little "bonuses". And before we start getting huge things like this (if ever) I'd rather have more vibrant and living cities and outposts. I heard some good suggestions about having more NPC's in outposts who are camping and sharpening weapons and such. Making the Refugees look like refugees... etc. etc. Basically adding some emotion into the game. Also, I'd rather have more armour and weapon variations and just more variety to everything that exists now... let's not add totally new things before we finish what we've started..

Lunarhound · Feb 25, 2005, 12:54 AM // 00:54

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Originally Posted by Shrapnel_Magnet

I personally don't ever want to see them in the game. Why? For one, you'd have players that were faster than you in mission or whatever which would be frustrating for both parties (one having these slow people with him, and the other having this fast guy that they can't keep up with). I don't want to ride horses and stuff in this game. I definitly don't want to ride a dragon or a unicorn or a griffon or a pig or a yak (well, maybe a yak) or whatever. They couldn't offer overwhelming benefits because that would go against the whole idea that it's dependant on the skills you use to achieve success - way of thinking. I dunno, it seems silly to me (for this game).

I think you've missed the point, here.

Players need not necessarily be faster, when riding. And who says any benefits need to be overwhelming? Or that they have to go against the idea of your skills being what allows success? Heck, a mount could be a skill. It could take up a slot just like any other skill, and offer a certain benefit like any other. Maybe a warrior's warhose could be an elite skill that added a few seconds to his Sprint skill or increased his attack power. The mount part only needs to be graphical. It doesn't need to do anything massive. The point is the effect. And maybe you don't want to ride anything, but I don't think that's a good reason not to have them. Some people do want to. You certainly don't have to, and you're right that they should never be implemented in a way that anyone who doesn't want to get them has to, just to keep up. But I still don't see that you've given a reason to leave them out entirely. You've only given reasons why they shouldn't be implemented like they are in other games.

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Housing? We have Guild Halls that are soon to be blessed with some sort of guild storage or something and I've heard some asthetic changes might be added as well. Sure, maybe in a true Massively Multiplayer (no instancing) it might be cool, but I'm more than happy where it stands (if they add the storage and such).

Again, I think you're missing the point. Yes, we have Guild Halls and don't need houses. That's not a reason that they shouldn't be implemented. Giving a player a place that they can decorate with their trophies and display their accomplishments (not their guild's) may not be a necessity, but it adds a great deal to the personalization of a character. It's never a bad thing to have a place to call your own, in an online world with persistent characters.

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As for the ships... lol, I honestly thought you were kidding. Sea Voyages? I dunno, I'm not tryng to be offensive but I think that this is more out of the question that I can even imagine. I'm happy with going to a port and teleporting to wherever it takes me... I'd like to see more places to explore personally, but I don't want to take a ship out to sea or anything crazy like that. Not in this game at least. Next people will be asking for Desert Caravans and wanting to go to the floating airships and explore the clouds and such.

Once again, you're missing the point. The point of something like this would not be to get from one place to the other, it would be to go on the voyage itself. How is it out of the question to have missions that involve some sort of travel other than running? The concept isn't new, and it certainly isn't as silly as you seem to think it is. They needn't be any longer or more tedious than any other mission, and they could have just as much to do. You seem to be thinking of it as an Everquest boat ride or something, and that's almost the complete opposite of the sort of thing I'm talking about.

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I can't say I really agree with anything you've said regarding these little "bonuses".

Not bonuses. Features to add variation, color, personality and customizability to the world, characters and gameplay. The entire point of my post was that things don't have to have some sort of hard utilitarian value in order to be in the game.

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And before we start getting huge things like this (if ever) I'd rather have more vibrant and living cities and outposts. I heard some good suggestions about having more NPC's in outposts who are camping and sharpening weapons and such. Making the Refugees look like refugees... etc. etc. Basically adding some emotion into the game. Also, I'd rather have more armour and weapon variations and just more variety to everything that exists now... let's not add totally new things before we finish what we've started..

Read my closing comments. I've already agreed with you here.

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Originally Posted by Lunarhound

Obviously, these things aren't going to make it into release, and they shouldn't. They're extras, and the core of the game still needs a lot of attention.

These are things I'm talking about for the future. There's nothing wrong with looking ahead, to future expansions.

I wish people would try thinking outside the box a bit, here. The fact that you don't need something is a very weak reason not to have it. We don't need to have indoor areas or dungeons, but apparently ArenaNet is designing an entire expansion around them. We definately don't need more clothing options or more armor designs, but a lot of people seem to want those as well. We don't need animated emotes. We don't need cut scenes during missions, when a simple text box describing what's happening would do nicely. Should all of these things be nixed, so that the developers can put more time into adressing core issues?

Shrapnel_Magnet · Feb 25, 2005, 01:23 AM // 01:23

Major problem with housing is that unless you want it to be ridiculously personal... they'd be useless (to "show off"). How would people visit your house and view all your personal rewards and such? I'm picturing it like the Guild Hall where everyone's house is in the same place on the map... because even if you charged players like 10,000 gold for a house... people would get them, probably quite a few... and you'd have all these houses in this district that would have to be constantly growing and stuff... I dunno, I'm just no seeing it. Perhaps you could visit another person's house by invitation? Still, who are you going to invite besides your friends? They probably have similar rewards and I still am not seeing it. Also, it's called Guild Wars (suggesting teams) so it'd be nice to focus on the Guilds rather than on the individuals.

It would be cool if you could invite people or guilds to your Guild Hall... but I can't see the ability for TOO much customization, other than the flags being replaced by your guild banner (which would be sweet), because all this info has to sit on a server and we aren't paying a monthly fee so...

I'm still not liking this mount idea... Unless they added a totally new class like a Beast Rider or something, I dunno... maybe you ride smaller animals so you're not so much bigger than everyone... like Tigers or Panthers (painful for the poor cat). Guild Wars, to me, is really about Player VS PLAYER (or PvE) and this "mount" idea... just seems to take away from the personal battles... I can't really explain it, I just don't think it fits the game at all.

Naval Missions are still ridiculous, lol, I'm sorry. What are you going to explore? or fight? Giant Squid? Jumping Dolphins? Finding a new island that you can simply teleport to later? Who's going to control this ship... it'd have to be decent sized to have at least 8 people on it and 8 people moving around comfortably. I don't remember too many things moving in Guild Wars that weren't scripted. I'm not sure if the engine would support this giant structure moving around on the water dynamically.

On the point of Character Customization... having trophies and houses and stuff, I don't really feel that it does that. If you had some kind of window that you could bring up on someone that showed you their feats and maybe some other cool stats... maybe it would prompt the Selected Person and ask if this person was allowed to view their "Personal Records" or something... and players could have options that either: Prompt for Record Request, Do Not Prompt, or Never Show Record. I dunno, it still seems trivial... Even then, I like Visual Customization more. Weapon and Armour variety is pretty limited, in my opinion... that's my only gripe (oh, and the game is really quiet... not a lot of interesting sound effects). I'm sure it will all come out in the wash though and we'll hopefully be in for a treat come Release.

Loviatar · Feb 25, 2005, 01:35 AM // 01:35

the mount deal boils down to a status symbol saying i have one and you dont look at me and drool

a friend is in WOW and he has been slobbering

only 10 more levels til i get my riding tiger
only 5 more levels til i get my riding tiger
after i get my riding tiger i can get an even better mount than my riding tiger

it is a LOOK AT ME IVE GOT ONE ADMIRE ME CUZ THAT IS ALL I CAN DO

i want a flying carpet that stays 3 feet off the ground you can customize that costs 50 gold and every noob can get one

Ciarre · Feb 25, 2005, 01:57 AM // 01:57

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Originally Posted by Shrapnel_Magnet

Major problem with housing is that unless you want it to be ridiculously personal... they'd be useless (to "show off"). How would people visit your house and view all your personal rewards and such? I'm picturing it like the Guild Hall where everyone's house is in the same place on the map... because even if you charged players like 10,000 gold for a house... people would get them, probably quite a few... and you'd have all these houses in this district that would have to be constantly growing and stuff... I dunno, I'm just no seeing it. Perhaps you could visit another person's house by invitation? Still, who are you going to invite besides your friends? They probably have similar rewards and I still am not seeing it. Also, it's called Guild Wars (suggesting teams) so it'd be nice to focus on the Guilds rather than on the individuals.

Well firstly the game makers didn't leave out the individuals as evidenced on the official site. So while it may be largely about guilds and GvG I'll bet there's going to be a healthy community of soloists and part-time party up people - all refugees from the crappy KS/PK environments out there.

Second, I think this game will appeal to a large amount of females - of which I am one. I'd like to see player housing even if it's only a small room with a chest. Just because you don't see a purpose doesn't mean there isn't one. This game is about making my own experience and if the devs are willing to give me an instanced room - what is it to you what I do in there?

Third, to repeat - instanced. This is a tech that has been here already in low-tech games such as Realm, in chats and only some - like There - tried to make neighborhoods. You simply need a place on the map that's an "entrance" and folks can get to their "place". Controls can be placed in the room to allow all, allow friends list, block ignores, etc. No big whoopee do, it's already been done before.

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I'm still not liking this mount idea... Unless they added a totally new class like a Beast Rider or something, I dunno... maybe you ride smaller animals so you're not so much bigger than everyone... like Tigers or Panthers (painful for the poor cat). Guild Wars, to me, is really about Player VS PLAYER (or PvE) and this "mount" idea... just seems to take away from the personal battles... I can't really explain it, I just don't think it fits the game at all.

While I never really got into horses in DAoC, some people did. I would use them to get across the map without having to guide the toon, but I think others may have used them because they liked them, hopping on one even when the distance could have easily been traversed in a few minutes. If GW gets transportation in this form I'd have to see if I liked them or not...can't really comment too much more on this.

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Naval Missions are still ridiculous, lol, I'm sorry. What are you going to explore? or fight? Giant Squid? Jumping Dolphins? Finding a new island that you can simply teleport to later? Who's going to control this ship... it'd have to be decent sized to have at least 8 people on it and 8 people moving around comfortably. I don't remember too many things moving in Guild Wars that weren't scripted. I'm not sure if the engine would support this giant structure moving around on the water dynamically.

I think this would be a blast

To each his own I always say. Whether the devs can deliver it or not is another question but I think sea battles and exploring would be great fun, can you imagine the expansion in the story line with this?

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On the point of Character Customization... having trophies and houses and stuff, I don't really feel that it does that. If you had some kind of window that you could bring up on someone that showed you their feats and maybe some other cool stats... maybe it would prompt the Selected Person and ask if this person was allowed to view their "Personal Records" or something... and players could have options that either: Prompt for Record Request, Do Not Prompt, or Never Show Record. I dunno, it still seems trivial... Even then, I like Visual Customization more. Weapon and Armour variety is pretty limited, in my opinion... that's my only gripe (oh, and the game is really quiet... not a lot of interesting sound effects). I'm sure it will all come out in the wash though and we'll hopefully be in for a treat come Release.

Again it's personal preference. Some gamers love those engineering white papers on some fansites that are called "character guides". I hate them. I feel they take away from the game. I like the guides that are written as though a Master was talking to a hall full of Apprentices. Numbers mean very little to me, it's the experience I'm after and it doesn't necessarily have to include wars or competition.

On another note I think accessible Character Description would add greatly to the game and maybe take some attention off of the "I'm great 'cause of my weapon/armor/char build". After all, right now in many games that's all the self expression you have. I see you talking a lot about stats above - that bores me to tears. I'd rather see what you'd write in a Character Description fitting to the role you're playing in the game.

Ciarre

Lunarhound · Feb 25, 2005, 01:58 AM // 01:58

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Originally Posted by Shrapnel_Magnet

Major problem with housing is that unless you want it to be ridiculously personal... they'd be useless (to "show off"). How would people visit your house and view all your personal rewards and such? I'm picturing it like the Guild Hall where everyone's house is in the same place on the map... because even if you charged players like 10,000 gold for a house... people would get them, probably quite a few... and you'd have all these houses in this district that would have to be constantly growing and stuff... I dunno, I'm just no seeing it. Perhaps you could visit another person's house by invitation? Still, who are you going to invite besides your friends? They probably have similar rewards and I still am not seeing it. Also, it's called Guild Wars (suggesting teams) so it'd be nice to focus on the Guilds rather than on the individuals.

I'm thinking more along the lines of having each player's house in its own personal instance. No, you wouldn't really invite anyone other than your friends, and they'd probably have houses too, but so what? The point is having your own personal space to customize as you see fit and hang out in with whoever you want. Maybe you don't see the point and wouldn't use it, and that's fine, but a lot of people would love something like this. Again, the fact that it doesn't serve a strict purpose is irrelevant. As for the game being called "Guild Wars" that may be true, but ArenaNet has said many times that they want to cater to all sorts of players. PvP is a major focus of the game, but it is not the only focus, and neither are guilds. If that were the case, the PvE missions, the cut scenes that accompany them and the ongoing story would not exist.

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It would be cool if you could invite people or guilds to your Guild Hall... but I can't see the ability for TOO much customization, other than the flags being replaced by your guild banner (which would be sweet), because all this info has to sit on a server and we aren't paying a monthly fee so...

I don't have any of the specific links on me, but ArenaNet has explained the technology behind GW in great detail, and have made it pretty clear that this sort of thing wouldn't be a problem. Check IGN. There's a multi-page interview focusing exclusively on what makes GW work, and what it can do, there somewhere.

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I'm still not liking this mount idea... Unless they added a totally new class like a Beast Rider or something, I dunno... maybe you ride smaller animals so you're not so much bigger than everyone... like Tigers or Panthers (painful for the poor cat). Guild Wars, to me, is really about Player VS PLAYER (or PvE) and this "mount" idea... just seems to take away from the personal battles... I can't really explain it, I just don't think it fits the game at all.

You don't have me convinced, here. You've pretty much just said that you don't like the idea of people riding on animals, no matter how it's implemented, so it shouldn't be in the game. That's not much of a reason.

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Naval Missions are still ridiculous, lol, I'm sorry. What are you going to explore? or fight? Giant Squid? Jumping Dolphins?

Sure, why not? I dunno about the dolphins, but giant squid sound like fun and it definately wouldn't be the first time an online game's had them.

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Finding a new island that you can simply teleport to later?

Absolutely. People already discover new areas that they can teleport to later. Why does the fact that one of those new areas may be an island make it stupid?

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Who's going to control this ship... it'd have to be decent sized to have at least 8 people on it and 8 people moving around comfortably. I don't remember too many things moving in Guild Wars that weren't scripted.

Basically, the idea is to have a few missions that require you to do something other than run around and fight monsters in the traditional way. It's only ridiculous if you don't use your imagination a bit. The entire thing could simply be scripted, with an NPC captain running the show and players fending off flying enemies, pirates attempting to board the ship, etc. Perhaps there could be points in the mission during which players could make choices that would affect where the ship eventually landed. Perhaps there could be a ship that's sort of like a mini-game with a trip that lasts ten minutes, and random events (common, rare and ultra rare) that can occur during it. There are a million ways to do things like this and make them interesting. The point does not have to be getting from one place to the other. The point simply has to be having fun.

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I'm not sure if the engine would support this giant structure moving around on the water dynamically.

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On the point of Character Customization... having trophies and houses and stuff, I don't really feel that it does that.

It doesn't customize your avatar, no, but your character is more than just his stats, ranking and the equipment he wears. Maybe we think about things like this a bit differently, as I'm a roleplayer at heart, but I think the sort of house I have and what I choose to put in it say a lot about my character.

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If you had some kind of window that you could bring up on someone that showed you their feats and maybe some other cool stats... maybe it would prompt the Selected Person and ask if this person was allowed to view their "Personal Records" or something... and players could have options that either: Prompt for Record Request, Do Not Prompt, or Never Show Record. I dunno, it still seems trivial...

I'm sorry you see it as trivial. I see it as essential. The point isn't just knowing what the other character's done and collected, it's seeing it displayed in way that's in context with the world. If my character has a house, he's more a part of the game world than if he's homeless.

Guild Wars is a competitive game, but it is not just a competitive game. It's also an RPG. A virtual world. The creators have gone to great trouble to emphasize that. In a virtual world, the fact that something "isn't needed" strictly for gameplay reasons is not a reason not to include it. If it were about nothing but competition between clans and racking up stats, a lot of what's in there now wouldn't be in there at all. No levels, no cut scenes, no animated emotes, no ongoing story, no PvE.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not some carebear who's entirely against PvP in any form, and I don't just want to sit around chatting all the time. If that's all I wanted, there are other places I can do that. I do, however, want to play in a fully realized world, and I know I'm not alone in this. PvP or no PvP, this is still an online role playing game. If I were making these suggesions for a game like PlanetSide, well... that would be silly. But GW, despite being structured differently from a typical MMORPG, is a lot more than simply an online action game.

Loviatar · Feb 25, 2005, 02:30 AM // 02:30

i think the one main block to mounts would be to unbalance the very carefull work they have done so far to actually balance things out

Cruel Skeksis · Feb 25, 2005, 02:57 AM // 02:57

To be honest, some of these ideas are alright to me in a specific light, but in other ways totally unacceptable.

I dont want mounts, they sort of represent that carrot on a stick mindset to me. Its the last thing Id want to see in GW, but if people were highly for them then fine. Myself though, it doesnt seem in line with GW to me. Mounts in missions? It just makes no sense to me at all. I think you just want a horse to ride, but feet are fine and make more sense. Ive never anywhere in any spot in Tyria seen a human riding a beast. The only riders Ive seen are the dwarves on their Dolyaks.
Having a party of people riding Dolyaks around in a mission? Its just appalling to me.

Housing is something I get a kick out of in DAoC. I own seven houses there (just create alt guilds to get more houses). I love to decorate and customize them.
However, I dont think it again fits perfectly with Guild Wars, but could fit if done right. Now I hope my Guild Hall will be really customizable, and Id like to see it have some personalized customizations relating to just my character that I can access and play with - so it isnt all the GM decorating. Id have a really hard time with that.
Maybe rooms or something, but based around the guild. Something that I alone can customize in my guild.
If they dont do this, I will be one of those people who buys a separate account just to decorate a cloak and guild hall the way I want it. Hope I dont have to.

Ships. Having a Seabased Expansion could be really fun. There is potential? But riding ships from point A to point B like you would a mount? I am again absolutley reluctant to support such an idea.
That is why in DAoC ToA they had to put in portals, and eventually more portals to more places, everyone hated the boats.

I despise travel time, and if either boats or mounts are carrots on a stick to reduce travel time, I have an immediate beef with the company responsible.

If they are there as a money-sink time-sink coolness factor, I again have a beef. They should have a definite PURPOSE aside from 'World As Toy' in this case, because they are so visually obstructive. I would hate to see mounts crowding up town, a mission, or an explorable area because they block out my sight. I love horses too, but I just don't see how any kind of mount fits the humans of Tyria.

Galatea Orea · Feb 25, 2005, 03:01 AM // 03:01

Sacred has mounts. Which are cool and fun way to travel. But there was no quick travel in Sacred. You had to slog around everywhere you wanted to go. I don't particularly see the need for them. However, I will say that if you are an explorer and not on a mission, a mount would be nice to make travel faster (if it did do that). But what you really need is a Pack Mule like in Dungeon Siege to carry all your loot.

Devil's Dictionary · Feb 25, 2005, 03:11 AM // 03:11

Mounts: You add mounts. Players will ask to customize their mounts. You add the customization. Players will ask the ability to feed the mounts. You add the ability to feed the mounts. Players ask the possibility to compete in races. You add the possibility to compete in races. Players ask for prizes for those competitions. You add the prizes. They ask for specially organized events to show off their cool mounts. You do as they ask. They ask prizes for those events. You add the prizes. They ask for stables to house their mounts. You add stables. They ask for the mounts to be allowed to interact with each-other. You add the AI subroutine. They ask for the mounts to be able to have babies. You tweak the AI.... Do you see where I am going? Maybe you, being a rational and smart person (I don't know you personally so everything's possible) personally think that mounts will be enough and the rest are for people with too much time on their hands. But that means somebody else will show on and ask for new mount-related options. It would be unfair to ArenaNet to listen to you but not listen to him.

Ships: You embark on a ship to travel from point A to point B and you see the following message "You are currently floating on your way to point B. In order to make the ship voyages as realistic as possible, you travel in real time. Please come back in three months when the fare will be finished.
With the insta-travel option, why to have sea-voyages? Even if you make it like Sid Meiher's Pirates, I don't see how it would work in an instanced world.

Housing: Guild Wars is not an MMO. As ArenaNet puts it, it's a CORPG: Competitive Online Role Playing Game. Why would you stay at your house if the game's all about adventure and tactical combat? Take Aragorn from LOTR: he did not have a house!

Don't call us "unimaginative". We are level-headed and would love to see GW growing. However understand that there are additions you can't live without as well as additions you'd like to have.

Ciarre · Feb 25, 2005, 03:33 AM // 03:33

I know you didn't write an answer to me, but I'm replying nevertheless.

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Originally Posted by DEATH AT THE DOOR

Mounts: You add mounts. Players will ask to customize their mounts. You add the customization. Players will ask the ability to feed the mounts. You add the ability to feed the mounts. Players ask the possibility to compete in races. You add the possibility to compete in races. Players ask for prizes for those competitions. You add the prizes. They ask for specially organized events to show off their cool mounts. You do as they ask. They ask prizes for those events. You add the prizes. They ask for stables to house their mounts. You add stables. They ask for the mounts to be allowed to interact with each-other. You add the AI subroutine. They ask for the mounts to be able to have babies. You tweak the AI.... Do you see where I am going? Maybe you, being a rational and smart person (I don't know you personally so everything's possible) personally think that mounts will be enough and the rest are for people with too much time on their hands. But that means somebody else will show on and ask for new mount-related options. It would be unfair to ArenaNet to listen to you but not listen to him.

You forgot jousting matches

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Ships: You embark on a ship to travel from point A to point B and you see the following message "You are currently floating on your way to point B. In order to make the ship voyages as realistic as possible, you travel in real time. Please come back in three months when the fare will be finished.
With the insta-travel option, why to have sea-voyages? Even if you make it like Sid Meiher's Pirates, I don't see how it would work in an instanced world.

Dunno, figure that's the dev's job to explore and if they can't just say so <shrug>

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Housing: Guild Wars is not an MMO. As ArenaNet puts it, it's a CORPG: Competitive Online Role Playing Game. Why would you stay at your house if the game's all about adventure and tactical combat? Take Aragorn from LOTR: he did not have a house!

Different strokes for different folks. The logic may escape you and that's fine, but it would be nice to be allowed the fact that we are different and therefore think and experience things differently and that's okay.

btw, Aragorn became King and then indeed have a house, or at least his own apartments in the castle.

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Don't call us "unimaginative". We are level-headed and would love to see GW growing. However understand that there are additions you can't live without as well as additions you'd like to have.

You're not unimaginative, you simply have a different vision of your ideal gaming environment than I do. While I agree that GW cannot fulfill every single wish that every single player might have, they can try - if they wish - to implement some environment characteristics that there seems to be a consensus about.

Ciarre

Lunarhound · Feb 25, 2005, 03:37 AM // 03:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEATH AT THE DOOR

Mounts: You add mounts. Players will ask to customize their mounts. You add the customization. Players will ask the ability to feed the mounts. You add the ability to feed the mounts. Players ask the possibility to compete in races. You add the possibility to compete in races. Players ask for prizes for those competitions. You add the prizes. They ask for specially organized events to show off their cool mounts. You do as they ask. They ask prizes for those events. You add the prizes. They ask for stables to house their mounts. You add stables. They ask for the mounts to be allowed to interact with each-other. You add the AI subroutine. They ask for the mounts to be able to have babies. You tweak the AI.... Do you see where I am going? Maybe you, being a rational and smart person (I don't know you personally so everything's possible) personally think that mounts will be enough and the rest are for people with too much time on their hands. But that means somebody else will show on and ask for new mount-related options. It would be unfair to ArenaNet to listen to you but not listen to him.

I'm not sure I follow, here. This sort of thing could be applied to any feature, no matter what it is. Should we never suggest anything new or interesting, for fear that it will explode out of control? I've never seen the scenario you're describing happen in any other game that has mounts.

Quote:

Ships: You embark on a ship to travel from point A to point B and you see the following message "You are currently floating on your way to point B. In order to make the ship voyages as realistic as possible, you travel in real time. Please come back in three months when the fare will be finished.
With the insta-travel option, why to have sea-voyages? Even if you make it like Sid Meiher's Pirates, I don't see how it would work in an instanced world.

I thought I made it clear that this wasn't, in any way, what I was talking about. The point of having a mission or two that took place on a ship (or even partly on a ship) would not be to have a way to travel, it would simply be for a bit of variety and to have fun. Plenty of fantasy adventures take place at sea, and I simply thought that it would be nice to incorporate that in some way. Why do you assume that it would have to be getting on board and waiting for "three months"?

Quote:

Housing: Guild Wars is not an MMO. As ArenaNet puts it, it's a CORPG: Competitive Online Role Playing Game. Why would you stay at your house if the game's all about adventure and tactical combat? Take Aragorn from LOTR: he did not have a house!

Aragorn didn't have a house because he was a wanderer, and not having a house was part of his character. I don't plan on playing Aragorn. As for GW not being a traditional mmorpg, that has only to do with sctructure and nothing to do with whether or not housing for those who'd like to see it has a place in the game. No matter what acronym you use to describe it, GW remains an online role playing game. An online role playing game of a different sort, to be sure, but still an online role playing game. For some people, role playing games are more than just the combat and there are those who are going to want to see certain features. The point I'm trying to make is that utility is not the only reason to implement something.

Quote:

Don't call us "unimaginative". We are level-headed and would love to see GW growing. However understand that there are additions you can't live without as well as additions you'd like to have.

I understand this perfectly, and I am not in any way trying to insult anyone. I'm simply saying that "we don't need it" isn't a good reason to leave something out of an RPG entirely. A large part of any RPG is immersion.

Devil's Dictionary · Feb 25, 2005, 03:46 AM // 03:46

You speak the truth mate. I admit: my biggest fear is clueless people (and I do not mean by any way you) turning GW into just another run-o'-the-mill MMO game. I know ArenaNet wouldn't impliment just any suggestion but I am a diehard optimist.

To Ciarre:
I understand all people are different and I wouldn't mind to see some of those features (such as sea adventures) to be implimented. However I'd prefer GW to come as soon as possible and with as little bugs as possible. Also I should note that I didn't like any of the games with mounts and sea travels that I played.

Ciarre · Feb 25, 2005, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEATH AT THE DOOR

To Ciarre:
I understand all people are different and I wouldn't mind to see some of those features (such as sea adventures) to be implimented. However I'd prefer GW to come as soon as possible and with as little bugs as possible. Also I should note that I didn't like any of the games with mounts and sea travels that I played.

I kind of thought that's what your concern was and I echo it. There's no way I want to see the devs dither about with a wish list in the immediate future - pre April 28th. However Expansion Packs may be the answer for future release and if they come up with a sea adventure pack you don't have to buy it.

I really like the way they've approached Expansion Packs as "chapters". I'm an avid reader of sci-fi, fantasy and horror, but sometimes there are entire chapters I skip as I recognize them as the "fillers" they are, not integral to the core story and dang! I want to know what happens to the hero/heroine, not what they had for breakfast in some crofter's hut.

So there will no doubt be Packs I'll pass up while getting one or two of the others.

Ciarre

Lunarhound · Feb 25, 2005, 04:06 AM // 04:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEATH AT THE DOOR

You speak the truth mate. I admit: my biggest fear is clueless people (and I do not mean by any way you) turning GW into just another run-o'-the-mill MMO game.

I don't think any of us need to worry about that happening and I don't want it any more than you do.

Quote:

I understand all people are different and I wouldn't mind to see some of those features (such as sea adventures) to be implimented. However I'd prefer GW to come as soon as possible and with as little bugs as possible. Also I should note that I didn't like any of the games with mounts and sea travels that I played.

Well, I want to see it as soon as possible too. As I said earlier, I'm not suggesting these things be implemented any time soon. Merely that they might be fun to have in the game at some point in the future.

Devil's Dictionary · Feb 25, 2005, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ciarre

I really like the way they've approached Expansion Packs as "chapters". I'm an avid reader of sci-fi, fantasy and horror, but sometimes there are entire chapters I skip as I recognize them as the "fillers" they are, not integral to the core story and dang! I want to know what happens to the hero/heroine, not what they had for breakfast in some crofter's hut.

I don't know if you know of "A Song of Ice and Fire", but my father, as well as one of my friends read the book partially. Following only a few of the storylines

.

Midgkor · Feb 25, 2005, 04:43 AM // 04:43

oooh george rr martin wheee next one is out in july ! um being a longtime dungeon master both paper and puter I have a saying , more doesnt mean better. And also being a musician "playing to the crowd" is far from playing "with" the audience. just my 2 silvers remmeber everyone has their own version of fun and the keyword to use here is GAME , and for all intents and purposes , game (should) = FUN

m3th · Apr 25, 2005, 10:47 AM // 10:47

nice thread. i was looking for one like this, thought there would have to be one somewhere.

Lunarhound. Your a UO player. or something like that, but my money is on UO. What you said at the beginning is EXACTLEY what i was thinking when looking for this thread. I played UO for ages with my mates and LOVED:

1) Hooning around on horses, catching them and generally horsing around (sorry)
2) Getting on a boat and going sailing. Killing the kraken and on some shards there were fearsome pirates that needed fighting. Was a good place to train too.
3) Houses. All manner of stuff was done in there, from item storage to a meeting place before a journey to a place to quaff ale and eat cake. Oo we had an awsome PvP arena on the top of a tower made from oil cloth lol.

Now i know GW isnt the 'sim' that UO was. And hey, im posting here and reading these forums coz im sick of UO and hanging for GW like you all. But man, that stuff was awsome fun. Some of the replies to Lunar clearly just havent experienced this before and cant understand it. Having friends online is another big thing, like its something i do with a group of IRL mates. No there isnt a whole lot of 'point' to coming around to my UO house to drink some ale i just brewed and try a new cake i just took outa the oven. Nor is there point to sailing on the seas searching for krakens (and skulling the kegs of ale we always take on a long journey).

Cept its fun. real fun i think. and thats why im playing a computer game, for fun. Course this doesnt apply between just random ppl. If you dunno anyone then i suppose you wouldnt have any interest in this stuff. But for me and my mates it was and still is hilarious.

*edit*
george r martin rocks!! watched all the LOTR on dvd this weekend and my ex-girlfriend was asking for something similar to read after. I was like 'righty ho, some Stark action for you!'

Deagol · Apr 25, 2005, 11:40 AM // 11:40

I'm sure the developers can add mounts so they don't spoil game balance or make shared parties impossible. Pure cosmetic mounts would be one option, but I'd prefer a mount with some non-unbalancing effects. Obviously, using such a mount could take up space in the skill bar, just like a pet does. Much space in order ot be useful. And a travel faster mount skill would have to be time limited, just like the current speed skills.

That would be a fine extension in some chapter.

Housing is a differnet matter. You may have noticed a rather limited amount of personalization of the character, and a rather limited amount of inventory slots. The problems is that this is a game with no monthly fee, you pay once, but anet is having to store all that information forever. So housing would be similarily limited in how you can personalize it, which would rather defeat its purpose. I'd rather have more inventory space, more character customization, or more customization of the guild hall, than bland housing.